Outlaw mining and replacing ./f top value.

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#1
Hello!

I've been meaning to make a thread on this for quite a while. Last reset on Niflheim, and I'm pretty sure this was happening on Midgard as well, the top factions were mining all of their value. This made them somewhat unraidable, because they had no spawners up. How is it fair to the community for a faction to be "unraidable"? Without a rule in-place, you're agreeing to enabling this unfair advantage. Imagine being ./f top 2, and suddenly you're ./f top 5 in less-than half a day, and you just lost payout... You'd be pretty pissed, right? Because there was no legitimate way to remove their value. After that, they would mine everything, again, and just replace right before the next payout.

Does that sound fair to you?

To prevent this, I suggest VampMC implements a rule outlawing mining and replacing. There just isn't any logical way a ./f top 5-10 faction could EVER make the top. Most of the time, most people didn't even know how much ... was worth, then suddenly, they jump up billions in a few hours.

This, out of everything that needs improvement, is paramount to everything else. Factions is supposed to be a competitive game mode, right? Yet, with the top factions, they quit, and come back right before payout, they quit, and come back right before payout. How is that competitive if they quit, and are always ./f top #1.

This would also be an improvement to the server as a whole, because it would discourage factions from quitting after grace period. Constant wall checks is what makes Factions fun. It's not fun when everyone just quits after the first week.

Obviously, to enforce this, sudden dramatic decreases and increases of ./f top value before and during payout, would be noticed. For punishment, I suggest a disqualification from payout. This isn't fair to most of the server, so I recommend a disqualification to deter them from attempting to do it again, and for the unfair advantage to the rest of the server. Of course, punishment isn't what I'm in-control of, just recommending what I think is suitable.

Even if you decide not to, for whatever reason, just read what I'm saying, I was part of Redemption on Niflheim last map, and we were ./f top #2 for a bit, but that ended when swatgang, and a bunch of others, placed their spawners hours before payout. So, please tell me, how were we supposed to win that map? We were raided, but we still got ./f top #3, and got placed into ./f top #5 a day before payout....

After what I've said, believe me when I say this, outlaw mining and replacing!
 
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#3
So you're saying that factions shouldn't be able to place spawners right before payout, if said spawners haven't been placed for a while?
 
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#5
I'm suggesting faction value should not be mined past grace period. So, yes.
I think I can relate, Farside was ftop 3 for most of the map but we were always on edge about being bumped down by Prosper because of the wealth rascalb said he was going to place before payouts.

What exactly constitutes "dramatic" increases/decreases, though? I think there might be a pretty large grey area with how you could interpret how much of a jump in wealth is too much. Maybe they place 100mil a day before, or 50mil an hour before. Or perhaps 300mil a few days before, so they only have to check walls for a little while. Perhaps an alternative where wealth doesn't count towards payouts unless placed x amount of time before said payouts would work?

At any rate, I don't think it's too problematic as it is now. If a faction can get such a massive lead on you that they can go over a week without making any money, they deserve the payout. You can always raid their wealth before they get too much of a lead on you as well. If a solution could be found that's not too much trouble to implement, and without a big impact on quality of life, I'd be all for it though.

Constant wall checks is what makes Factions fun.
Did I read that correctly?
 
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#7
If a faction can get so much value in 1 week that they can quit for the rest of the map, you should be able to get that much by continually playing the rest of the 4/5 weeks of the map to make it competitive.
 
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#8
If a faction can get so much value in 1 week that they can quit for the rest of the map, you should be able to get that much by continually playing the rest of the 4/5 weeks of the map to make it competitive.
You don’t even know how much they’re worth, and how exactly are we supposed to match it? I mean, we could raid them, oh wait, they don’t have any value up. I don’t really know how you’re expected to grind billions when you’re a smaller faction, and no other faction is actually raidable. So, tell me, how is any smaller faction able to compete?
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I think I can relate, Farside was ftop 3 for most of the map but we were always on edge about being bumped down by Prosper because of the wealth rascalb said he was going to place before payouts.

What exactly constitutes "dramatic" increases/decreases, though? I think there might be a pretty large grey area with how you could interpret how much of a jump in wealth is too much. Maybe they place 100mil a day before, or 50mil an hour before. Or perhaps 300mil a few days before, so they only have to check walls for a little while. Perhaps an alternative where wealth doesn't count towards payouts unless placed x amount of time before said payouts would work?

At any rate, I don't think it's too problematic as it is now. If a faction can get such a massive lead on you that they can go over a week without making any money, they deserve the payout. You can always raid their wealth before they get too much of a lead on you as well. If a solution could be found that's not too much trouble to implement, and without a big impact on quality of life, I'd be all for it though.


Did I read that correctly?
First off, like I said, there is no way to raid any other faction when they do this! It’s not millions, either. It’s legitimately billions in less than a day... No one plays after grace period, which means a smaller faction wouldn’t even come close to what other larger factions have stored in their /pvs. You’re not seeing the big picture when it comes to what Factions can be! It’s supposed to be a game you play everyday! Not for a week and quit for a month. This is an unfair advantage. I don’t really think you’ve noticed how sudden and dramatic increases are... I don’t have anything to say, except that it IS what kills a server after the first week & makes factions unraidable.

Also, that’s not what I meant, at all. It’s anything that keeps players online is what’s fun, not just wall checks.
 
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#9
First off, like I said, there is no way to raid any other faction when they do this! It’s not millions, either. It’s legitimately billions in less than a day... No one plays after grace period, which means a smaller faction wouldn’t even come close to what other larger factions have stored in their /pvs. You’re not seeing the big picture when it comes to what Factions can be! It’s supposed to be a game you play everyday! Not for a week and quit for a month. This is an unfair advantage. I don’t really think you’ve noticed how sudden and dramatic increases are... I don’t have anything to say, except that it IS what kills a server after the first week & makes factions unraidable.

Also, that’s not what I meant, at all. It’s anything that keeps players online is what’s fun, not just wall checks.
Obviously there's no way to raid a faction's spawners when they have no spawners, I apologize if I didn't communicate that properly. "legitimately" billions? In less than a day? That's simply untrue. It takes weeks to get to 1bil, and that's for the biggest factions around. Factions don't play as much after the grace period, though midgard stayed active for roughly 2+ weeks last map. Are you saying that a small faction that puts, for example, 100 hours collectively into the game should beat a faction with 1,000+ hours played? Just because they spread out those hours over 5 weeks instead of 1-3? Realistically, if your faction could compete with the theoretical faction you're speaking of, you'd either raid them like you said you would when they still have spawners placed, or out-grind them when they don't. If you can't do either of those things, you have no business demanding that they not be able to mine their spawners whenever they'd like. Because odds are that you'd get nowhere close to raiding them if they were active in the first place.

The gamemode as it is has evolved to a point where you have to do a lot of incredibly boring and time consuming tasks to stay competitive. It's no surprise that people quit after only playing for a short period of time. I don't see a change like this, where you just incentivize factions to stick around for a payout after they're already bored, as being healthly in the long-term.
 
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#10
I'm not saying you are supposed to match what other factions have in their PV. Im saying more that if they can grind 500+ million why cant you? They aren't cheating to get it. They are afking the few spawners they have up, grinding mining or fishing or cane. They aren't doing fun tasks but they are doing it to gain value. Your faction can do that just as easily and get hundreds of million in value.
 
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#11
"legitimately" billions? In less than a day? That's simply untrue.

It really isn't... factions grind for 2 weeks, mine, and replace more-than 1 bill in a day. (On Nifleheim)

Are you saying that a small faction that puts, for example, 100 hours collectively into the game should beat a faction with 1,000+ hours played? Just because they spread out those hours over 5 weeks instead of 1-3?

Not really sure what your point is here ^. A faction with more hours will win, regardless of anything. But that's the thing, no one plugs in the hours to do that after the first week. Basically, whoever is ./f top #1 during the first week, wins the map.

Realistically, if your faction could compete with the theoretical faction you're speaking of, you'd either raid them like you said you would when they still have spawners placed, or out-grind them when they don't


Not theoretical. I don't think you even played Nifleheim. Raid them? Raid what? They don't have anything placed past the first week. Out-grind them? That's easier said than done. Like I've said numerous times before, no one plays after the first week! I simply can't grind enough by myself. Wouldn't it be easier to just raid them? Oh wait.

If you can't do either of those things, you have no business demanding that they not be able to mine their spawners whenever they'd like. Because odds are that you'd get nowhere close to raiding them if they were active in the first place.


I mean, I could only be "able" to do both and more if every faction placed their value! I don't know how you expect me to do both when I physically can't. "Nowhere close"? I agree, I probably couldn't do it, but at-least I would be able to try.

The gamemode as it is has evolved to a point where you have to do a lot of incredibly boring and time consuming tasks to stay competitive. It's no surprise that people quit after only playing for a short period of time. I don't see a change like this, where you just incentivize factions to stick around for a payout after they're already bored, as being healthly in the long-term.

You know, some factions play on several maps every month. They're constantly playing, so I'm not sure why you suggest that's healthier than doing the same exact thing on this server. Faction servers die after the first 2 weeks, but what if they had a constant player-base? More funding to the server, an active community, and an extended play time. To me, being on a server more-than a week is fun, but leaving, that's just a waste of time. Whatever happened to actually playing the game?
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I'm not saying you are supposed to match what other factions have in their PV. Im saying more that if they can grind 500+ million why cant you? They aren't cheating to get it. They are afking the few spawners they have up, grinding mining or fishing or cane. They aren't doing fun tasks but they are doing it to gain value. Your faction can do that just as easily and get hundreds of million in value.
Saying it is easier than doing it. There are a few points to this, first, you don't know how much they actually have, until it's too late. Factions can jump billions in a day or so by just placing their value. You're basically grinding and hoping you'll come close, but you don't. Second, if the community isn't active, why would my faction be? I don't think I can match ./f top#3 by myself and 2 other people. Third, wouldn't it be easier to just raid them? I don't need to grind, when I can just raid them. But I can't raid them? Tell me, how am I supposed to grind hundreds of millions?
 
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